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Open meeting on October 2 and 3, 2005 in Cologne
IBKA together with the Giordano-Bruno-Stiftung (Giordano-Bruno-Foundation - GBF) and BFG Munich

Leading culture Humanism and Enlightenment
Perspectives of secular politics in Germany


Sunday, October 20, 2005

Open meeting: Leading culture Humanism and Enlightenment ?

1400 The meeting begins - Introduction (Room “Barcelona”)

1430 – 1600 Three parallel working groups with experts in different rooms

Limits of religious freedom (Moderation: Dr Gerhard Czermak)
State and religion in Germany (Expert: Prof Dr Dr Eric Hilgendorf, Würzburg University)
The fundamentalist character of religions and the necessary limits of religious freedom il-lustrated in Christianity and Islam (Expert: Prof Dr Armin Pfahl-Traughber, Fach-hochschule des Bundes)

Migration, Integration and Religions (Moderation: Gunnar Schedel)
- Via Religion to Integration ? (Expert: Dr Steffen Rink (REMID))
- On Empowerment, Integration and the state’s policy on religions (Expert: Dr habil Waldemar Vogelsang, Trier University)
- Imported puritanism, immigration and religion illustrated via a Baptist parish of im-migrants from Russia (Expert: Frank Welker, Trier University)

“Leading culture Humanism and Enlightenment or ideological neutrality of the state ?” (Moderation: Dr Wolfgang Proske)
Pleading for a humanist – enlightened leading culture or why the religiously neutral state is fiction (Expert: Dr Michael Schmidt-Salomon)
Humanism as third denomination (Expert: Dr Horst Groschopp, HVD)
May the state take an active part in teaching values ? (Expert: Werner Schulz, HVD)

1600 Coffee break in the Bistro

1630 – 1830 The working groups continue their work
Proposals for the future work

1830 – 2130 Dinner (warm)

1930 – 2130 Public event in “Barcelona”: Forced marriage and murders of female migrants in
Germany for reasons of honour as an example for parallel societies
Introduction + documentary film + discussion with Collin Schubert (TERRE DES FEMMES)

Afterwards: Party in the Bistro

Monday, October 3, 2005 (bank holiday in Germany)

0830 Breakfast

Room “Barcelona”

0900 – 1100 Reports from Sunday’s working groups and general discussion

1115 – 1245 Panel discussion “Unite, confessionless of all German states!?”
Debate on the proposed founding of a “central council of confessionless” in Germany (Mod-eration: Gunnar Schedel)
Invited representatives of secular clubs who will take part in the discussion
Dr Michael Schmidt-Salomon (GBF), Dr Horst Groschopp (HVD), Gerhard Rampp (BFG Augsburg, Rudolf Ladwig (IBKA)


1245 Lunch (warm)

1400 End of the meeting

Leading culture Humanism and Enlightenment

While conservative politicians claim a christian-patriotic leading culture (“Values of the Christian occident”) and sometimes call to the arms against “godless and unpatriotic fellows” others are dreaming of the “multi-cultural society” incl. a “naturalization of Islam”. But nei-ther the conservative reanimation of the idea of a “Christian fort Europe” nor the postmodern appeasement politics towards religious and esoteric tendencies will promote the project of an “open society”.

Theoretically it should be known that we have nearly no other choice than to bet on that “sup-pressed leading culture” , the leading culture of humanism and Enlightenment that was firmly tied to the historical progress of societies. But the politcal establishment is far from seeing this. On the one hand all the great successes of the modern age are due to the tradition of the Enlightenment (technical know-how, a state being founded on the rules of the law, freedom of speech, etc.). On the other hand the Enlightenment still is an “underground movement”. Mil-lions of people turned their back to the religions in Germany but in politics and in the media they are enormously underrepresented. Today some 32 % of the Germans don’t belong to any religious confession and some 50% say they are “not religious” but neither politicians nor the media take very much notice of that.

But what could be done to enforce the enlightening, humanist thinking in social debates? This perspectival question will be in the centre of IBKA’s and GBF’s open meeting “Leading cul-ture Humanism and Enlightenment”. We will discuss topics like “Limits of religious free-dom”, “Leading culture Humanism and Enlightenment”, integrations of migrants and the problem of Islamism”, “missionary work in the east” or “idelological neutrality of the state?” We will also discuss whether it could help to found a “central council of the confessionless”, as GBF recently proposed, to enforce the lobbying for the interests of confessionless people in Germany.

Working group: Limits of religious freedom

The right of religious freedom is a basic right, so what are the legal limits for religions ? In which cases will the legitimate practising of religions restrict other persons’ rights? Are the basic rights for members of religions granted? Does every community accept democracy ? Can religious laws break general laws? How far are women concerned by ludicrous or crimi-nal religious norms? How can children of members of religious communitys be protected against legal guardians who want to exclude them from an influence from the outside? How do we recognize when normal practising a religion will turn into an essay to force their own rules on the whole country? Is there a collective right of religious communitys to educate their members’ children? Are the groups even entitled to replace governmental education with an education by the religious community (“homeschooling”) ? Which practices of religious communitys are illegal? What can we answer if the religious communitys say that critizizing their inner affairs were none of our business? How can we deal with groups who act as a group on the basis of religious freedom but who don’t allow their members to criticize or leave the group? What can we do when a member of a religious community will e.g. be threatened with murder just because he wants to join a competing religious community? How long can we tolerate the intolerant? Do we need consumer’s protection for religions – far from the commentaries you will hear from professional watchers who are part of competing relig-ions?

Prof Dr Dr Eric Hilgendorf
State and religion in Germany

In the statement “state and religion in Germany” the legal conditions that limit and control religious communitys in Germany will be presented. Traditionally this is called “Staat-skirchenrecht”. But nowadays this term is no longer valid as we now have a multicultural patchwork of religions. Some examples will show some problems that exist today in the rela-tionship of state and religion.

Prof Eric Hilgendorf teaches criminal law, code of criminal procedure, information law and computer science law. He studied philosophy, newer history and law in Tübingen. In his master’s dissertation he wrote about the development of the parlamentarian freedom of speech. Since 2001 Prof Hilgendorf has held the chair for criminal law, code of criminal pro-cedure, information law and computer science law at Würzburg University.

Further topics and experts are:

Prof Dr Armin Pfahl-Traughber
The fundamentalistic character of religions and the necessary limits of religious freedom shown at the examples of Christianity and Islam.

Moderation: Dr Gerhard Czermak

working group: Migration, Integration and Religion

De facto Germany is an immigration country. During the last 40 years several millions of “guest workers”, refugees, emigrants from Poland, Russia etc. have come to Germany and carrying their religion on their backs. Those in power accept more and more the offers of reli-gious communities for a better integration of the immigrants. The Islamic education as offered by several German states is an example as well as it is the money the Central Committee of the Jews gets for its care of the immigrated jews from Russia. This means that all people who come out of one area or who belong to the same community are made part of a religious communtiy without being asked. On the other hand they move the integration problem from the individual person to the organization. Here they ignore the fact that large parts of the newcomers are not religious as well as the question whether (e.g.) a Turkish teenager will or will not be more integrated if he gets two hours religious education a week.

In the working group “Migration, Integration and Religion” we will have a look at the reli-gious offers supported by the state. How much do they contribute to the integration of mus-lims and are they covered “missionary work” (as people will just because of their origin be seen and treated as a part of a religious community). Here it will be examined in which parts of the society one can accept or even support the living up of a religious identity because it helps to integrate or where it will collide with the claim of a secular society.

One part of the debate will be the term “parallel society”. This describes a real problem: the claim of certain groups to live in a subculture according to their “own law”. In this subculture central human rights are – be it because of tradition or because of religion – not respected. In the actual discussion no one reflects that the people are willing to integrate themselves but they realize that they are excluded. Therefore this term can easily be used to restrict the civil rights of the migrants living in a “parallel society” (no matter whether they do really live there or not).

During the discussion we will reflect the secular integration models resp. the difficulties in this part of politics as all secular unions have only some members who are migrants.

Possible questions
- Introduction
- How many migrants are religious when they come to Germany, does their attitude towards religion change (are they still religious, will they turn secular) and how can one interprete this result ?
- Is anything known about the acceptance of “their” religion within state and society and whether it is important for the migrants concerning their integration and their willingness to integrate ?
- Are there immigrant groups with parallel societies and what’s the role of their re-ligion concerning the parallel societies ?
- What do non religious immigrants from the same cultural environment think about parallel societies with a religious touch ?
- Which forms of religious practise could promote integration ? Which forms could promote integration but get into conflict with the claims of a secular society? Which forms will be a problem according to the rules of a secular society ?

Example
- What’s the russian immigrants religious identity ?
- How far are the russian immigrants (first, second generation) integrated in Ger-many and what had their religion to do with it?


Dr Steffen Rink
Via religion to integration ?
On empowerment, integration and the state’s religious politics
“Integration with an R – for religion” is a motto of the representative of the federal govern-ment. Again and again the importance of the empowerment that leads to self organization will be stressed. The statement will
- show actual strategies of state driven integration policy
- outline the development of the migrants’ organizations
- show the necessity of religion for integration
- ask for the consequences for a religously neutral state and the development of a democratic society

Dr habil Waldemar Vogelsang / Frank Welker (Trier University)

Religious segretation
The unholy alliance between puritan orthodoxy, cultural traditonalism and (new) forms of social closing – explained at the example of a Baptist parish of immigrants


Dr Vogelsang (*1952) is a scientific employee at the Faculty of Sociology at Trier University. He is mainly researching the sociology of youth, media and education as well as cultural life and the way of life. He is a co-founder of the interdisciplinary working group “Youth- and media culture” that has been working empirically on researching media and culture since 1985.

Frank Welker (*1975 in Saarbrücken) is an insurance salesman and is studying politics, Ger-man and sociology. He is a member of the interdisciplinary working group “Youth- and media culture”, the society for the scientific research of Parasciences and writes articles for the jour-nal “Materialien und Informationen zur Zeit (MIZ)”. He is mainly interested in religious criti-cism and youth research.

Moderation: Gunnar Schedel

Working group: Leading culture humanism and enlightenment – a contradiction to the concept of an ideologi-cally neutral state ?

Moderation: Dr Wolfgang Proske

May the state actively communicate values or should he take a neutral position like a night guard? Is the separation of church and state really the same as the separation of state and ide-ology? Is it at least possible that something like an “ideologically neutral state” exists? Does it make sense to understand humanism as “third denomination” in Germany and should this confession have the same rights as the two big churches ? Or does humanism place greater demands, can it be more than just “one confession between many others”? Could it be possi-ble that one understands it as the “secret leading culture of a modern state founded on the rule of the law”? What practical consequences would either perspective have for a modern, secular policy? Questions like these will be discussed by Michael Schmidt-Salomon (secretary of the GBF), Horst Groschopp (Federal President of the Humanistischer Verband Deutschland (HVD) and managing director of the Humanist Academy Berlin) and Werner Schulz (respon-sible for the humanist lifescience studies at the HVD). Of course they will not only discuss abstract definitions of terms but what will determine the course for the future, too. This means which directions the politics of the secular associations should follow.

Dr Horst Groschopp

Humanism as “Third denomination”
Ideological communities have always been denominational organizations. In their fight against the national church they opposed against the religious denominations. Even the group of those who did not belong to a confession (“Dissidents”) have never been confessionless in the sense of an ideological abstinence. There are and have been only some of them without religion.
As the “confessionless” form more a less a third of the society one has to ask again for the denominations, their quantitative and qualitative characters, the consequences as well as the organizational interests as large parts of the members of a Christian church are Christians if this means they are part of an organized denomination but not if that means they really be-lieve. Of course there are different kinds of (politically contrary) atheisms.
For the cultural sociology the confessionless are an unknown area. One of the debates that reflects these dissents and new questions is that of the”third denomination”. As there is a growing tendency in the scene of secular organizations to understand humanism as an ideol-ogy and to formulate the “ideology” humanistically the result is a strategic problem with the subject that wants to organize itself secularly-humanistically or that wants to get ideological offers and services.
The associations have to decide for themselves what they will see as their option for the fu-ture, which will be their concepts and which will be their potential. The HVD will continue to profile itself as a denominational organization and to address itself to his clientele of some 4,27 millions (according to Allensbach opinion reserarching institute) – but not to the “whole world”. In this the debate about the “Third denomination” will put some things right. It is ab-solutely unimportant if the term “modern denomination”, related to the humanist part of the population will be used further on, as the HVD does not intend to become a “church” or to define a “leading culture”. The HVD does not want the state to be “ideologically neutral” but to be “ideologically plural”.
The cultural scientist Dr phil habil Horst Groschopp (*1949) is federal president of the HVD. He published essays on the historical workers’ culture (Zwischen Bierabend und Bildungsver-ein, Berlin 1985), on the the German freethinkers’ cultural history (Dissidenten, Berlin 1997) as well as on history and presence of modern humanism (Humanismus und Kultur, Berlin 2000). At present he works for the Institut für Humanistische Lebenskunde in Berlin and is director of the Humanistische Akademie and writes for the journal Humanismus Aktuell (Ber-lin 1997 ff).

Further topics and experts
Dr Michael Schmidt-Salomon (IBKA / GBF): Plea for a humanist – enlightening leading culture or Why the ideologically neutral state is a fiction

Werner Schulz (HVD – Berlin): May the state actively communicate values ? The debate on teaching values at school in Berlin

Moderation: Dr Wolfgang Proske

Evening event: Sunday, 1930
Forced marriage and murdering migrant women for reasons of honour in Germany as an ex-ample for the formation of parallel societies

Introductory statement + documentary film + discussion with Collin Schubert (TERRE DES FEMMES)

Parallel or integrated ?

In the difficult balancing act between tradition and modern age many migrant women in Ger-many are looking for their way. Not all of them succeed in this. The young women who wish to life self-determined run a high risk within ethnic colonies and they may be punished with forced marriage or even be murdered for reasons of honour.

Tradition and political Islam dominate at the development of parallel worlds and they influ-ence the women. Lacks in integration policy lead to to a rollback in the third generation of immigrants, too.
How can a culture of living together on the basis of universal values develop? With an intro-ductory statement Collin Schubert wants to illuminate the situation of migrant women.
The documentary film “Türkische Hochzeitsreisende: Familienehre vor Liebe?” (45’) (Turk-ish wedding travellers: family life is valued more than love?” gives impressions of a strange society. On her journey through the Turkish Germany the SWR-author (SWR: Südwest-deutscher Rundfunk- Southwest-German Radio and TV) Susanne Babila found a society in which norms and value of the time of the immigration were conserved.

Collin Schubert studied psychology and sociology and works as a psychologist. She lived three years in Kabul / Afghanistan.
Collin Schubert is an expert with TERRE DES FEMMES in the department Women’s Rights in Islamic societies and is coordinator of a women’s project in Afghanistan. At conferences, workshops, in interviews and publications she is talking / writing on Islam / Islamism, Women’s Rights, crimes of honour and Afghanistan.